So for this week the topic was micro-finance. I was surprised by almost the entire chapter in Half the Sky. First off, as a male, I was actually getting a little angry with the book, and the bad light it had been appearing to cast males in. But as it cast statistic after statistic at me about how men spent a much higher percentage of money on instant gratification and consumption than on more important things, I grew much more accepting of the stories and willing to listen. And I couldn't believe the stories. How these women were able to build businesses out of such small loans. These loans were way less than I make in a day of work. And yet, they have accomplished so much more than I have.
One of the most surprising things about these success stories is about the husbands of these successful women. These people who used to beat them, control them, make their lives utterly miserable are still accepted by these women. And not only that, they are treated well by them. If this type of thing were to happen in America, I feel like the women would kick the men out of the house once they become successful and no longer have to rely on them. Like in the story of Samia, she paid off the debt of her husband, and then has her husband working under her. Why did she not get rid of him when she had the chance? He treated her terribly and squandered the money. Or in the story of Goretti, where she was often beat by heer husband and even mentioned that her life was miserable. Yet she still lives with her husband, and even occasionally gives him spending cash out of the money she makes.
What do you think of the male versus female portrayal in this chapter? Do you think it is justified? Why do you think these women kept their husbands around, and do you think they were right to do so?
This blog has made me think about what Malala said. She mentions that if she showed violence against the Taliban then she would be no better than them. I am not saying what these men did was forgivable, but I am simply saying that in this case they have chosen to be the stronger person and forgive. What we also must keep in mind is the culture. Women and men have certain rules they must respect. Many women do not have rights outside of the home. In some places women cannot hold property without a husband. Also in some place divorce is not aloud. These women are surviving and thriving in the constraints of their society.
ReplyDeleteEmpathy is the most difficult thing in this class. There are so many things we do not understand because our society has grown out of some of those ideals. Because we may have never seen it or lived we have trouble understanding. I cannot see myself tolerating that abuse let alone living in it for years and then continuing to live under the same roof after things have improved. This all influenced by my culture. In America women can do many things that women in developing counties cannot.
1. hold property
2. file for divorce
3. welfare
4. access to education
These are all of our rules set in place in our country to catch women who are falling through the cracks. Women have these safety nets. In those countries there are none. They stay in their situation because they want to survive.
I think you make a very good point, and raise some very good questions. To begin, I think that I am kind of left wondering about the same thing, mainly about why these women were still accepting of their husbands after they became successful. I think that there is no straight answer for this; I think that the reasoning depends on your own prior experiences and lives. For example, I would never have let my husband stay around after I became successful, but I really can’t say that this is for sure what I believe because I have never been in that situation. It’s hard to understand and comprehend why they did that when we have never experienced it and don’t know what it must have been like to have to become successful all on your own, endure those hardships, and at the end of the day accept and forgive your husband for the way he treated you.
ReplyDeleteI think of two things when I finished reading your blog. I think of: Forgiveness, and easy access to divorce in the United States. I think of forgiveness because it's a huge, important thing to do and receive in life. It helps us move on from the past and continue on with our lives. Because we don't really know, it's hard to tell if these women have truly forgave their husbands who have done awful things to them in the past, or if they are still under the same roof, giving them grace because of the fact if they are with a man, they can hold on to property and have other benefits that women alone cannot have. I can imagine it being incredibly difficult to forgive someone who has done such terrible things to you. From my own life, experience, and the way I was raised, my mom had always encouraged me to "Forgive just as I have been forgiven (Jesus)". When troubles have come my way, our someone has personally hurt me, I was told to forgive them anyway. Of course it was difficult and at times I didn't understand why I needed to do so, but I can honestly say it has always lifted a burden off my shoulders. Like I said before, we don't know if these women really have forgave these men, but I do think that it's possible they have.
ReplyDeleteThe second thing was that divorce is an easy accessible option in the United States. Divorce happens daily, and they say that half of the marriages in the U.S. end up in divorce. I tend to think that it's an easy way out for some marriages. We say that because of what has happened to those women, if that has happened to us, in the blink of an eye we'd file a divorce and kick the man out. In some people's opinions, that is the right thing to do. Others, it may not be. I personally don't really know what I'd chose because I never been in this situation before. But it really is something to consider why half of the marriages in the U.S. alone end up in divorce.
I like that you included our friend Jesus in your post and I like your views on forgiveness.
DeleteI agree that is very difficult to comprehend how women can readily accept their husbands after they have been regularly beaten and abused by their partner. It doesn't make sense to you or me because in our culture we would never accept this treatment. I think women forgive, or put up with abuse because divorce probably isn't an option in their culture and they might face isolation from their family or friends for seeking a divorce from their spouse. You mentioned that in America women would most likely cast aside a husband who abused them. This unfortunately is not the case, there is a victim mentality that is common across cultures in which victims of abuse begin to sympathize with their abuser and actually defend the individual who is causing them pain. It doesn't seem to make sense, but I have seen this behavior in my own friends and family members. I also think love is a very difficult subject to understand. When a person loves someone who is cruel to them it is easy to forgive that individual. It's interesting to bring up the issue of divorce in American culture because it is so common whereas it is not in other places around the world. I think the mentality in our culture is to "give up" when things become hard in a marriage. However, I believe that if someone is an abusive relationship they should be able to seek a divorce without social ramifications.
ReplyDeleteIf you truly consider the cultures that these women live in, divorce isn't necessarily an option. Many times religion or society refuse to give women the ability to choose their own husbands or to be rid of them. Marriage also gives women a certain status in many cultures. That status builds their reputation as a citizen and as a business woman, allowing them to be successful. In some instances, the husband is merely a prop. However, that being said, it may seem ridiculous to us because of the society we have built, but we must remember that not only are women not yet true equals in our culture, but the progress that has been made has taken hundreds of years and some of those changes weren't that long ago. Marital rape wasn't considered a crime in the U.S. until 1984 and I forget exactly how many states, but in several states, a rapist who gets a woman pregnant during the attack has full parental rights and can sue for partial or full custody of the child. These women are making progress so that maybe their daughters and sons don't end up in the same situation they are in, that is more important than being divorced.
ReplyDeleteI understand where you are coming from, but you have to realize it is other cultures. We are not reading about the united states, other countries are like that and everyone needs to know this. So getting pissed off at the book just because you are a male needs to realizes it is not our males in the united states. We are just learning about other countries.
ReplyDeleteI also do not think they portray men well in this chapter. It makes it seem like men don’t care about anything but money but that is not true. Yes some men are like that but that makes the ones who have a heart look bad in general to everyone else. And women they don’t always stand up for themselves. I do not think one gender is better than the other. I think people need to stop comparing genders and look at a person from what is on the inside.
ReplyDeleteI can see and understand your previous frustrations with the book, but I am glad these have been eased with what you have read more recently. You raise some good points and ask valid questions. I can relate to you when you say that the loans they are receiving are less than what you and I make doing one day's worth of work, and seeing how much farther they can make their money go unlike you and I.
ReplyDeleteTo address some of the specific questions you asked, culture plays such a huge role in the lives of those who we are reading about in our book. I would imagine that if it was accepted by society for a woman to leave her spouse, she would do so if in a terrible situation. But as we have seen time and time again, these women stick by their husband's side. Like you, I'm confused as to why they would not go against the society norm if their circumstances got to be bad enough (which in most cases we've read about, they have). Emily mentions above about those who will begin to feel guilty about the abuse they are receiving and eventually begin to protect them. This is so sad because of how much potential most women have, and to be dragged down by physical and emotional abuse is a situation that no one deserves to be in.
Reading about Saima and the successful business she created, in addition to the program KIVA truly gives me hope that these situations can be improved with the appropriate resources. Everyone deserves the chance to make something of themselves, and it's uplifting to see programs in motion that are helping to do so.
I was very anxious to hear a male perspective in this class. This happened to be a very interesting chapter and lesson to have a male perspective on. I think if I were a male reading all of these I would get offended as well. Then to look at it like you did is amazing. It is incredible the things some of these women did from having so little. It truly amazes me! What amazes me more is exactly what you said, why did they keep these unsupportive men around once they were successful? I wonder if it's possibly because they look at things a bit different than we do. They could see it as having a good man because they didn't beat them to death trying to become successful. They could also think they have a good man for sticking around with a successful woman since successful women are frowned upon in these places.
ReplyDeleteI think that the male versus female portrayal feels like the women are looked down upon until they actually do something and make good things come out of it. I think it is sad that if bad things happen in these households, it is the women who are beaten and the children suffer more because they cannot go to school. I think these women keep their husbands around because maybe they are afraid of something bad happening to them. Unlike in America, they might get "excommunicated" from their families or even their community?
ReplyDeleteI can see how this book would seem a little hard on the men, but really it's not getting down on all men, that would be going by like a stereotype and we all know that not all stereotypes are true. All it takes sometimes is one person to do something bad and people put a label on that group. It's hard not to think that all men in say India are bad. While reading this book in some of the chapters it's made me really not want to visit these places. I had to keep reminding myself that it's not all like that, that not everyyyy guy there is like that. I really want my boyfriend to read half the sky just because of how interesting it is and because of how much I have learned so far. He too puts a stereotype of the book thinking it will be full out about feminists, so not true. That is why it is good to be open minded about things you don't quite understand or have learned about
ReplyDeleteI believe for a woman to keep a man around that beat them , doesn't have to have much strength, to be more than that weak man. I'm sorry, but a man that beats his wife with one hand and asks for a $5 with his other hand has to pride broken. So what does he do beat her with the only power or upper hand he holds. Really, she has the upper hand because I'm sure real men threatens them.
ReplyDeleteYou make some very good points in your post.I agree that the chapter did sound a little harsh toward males, and even the stories and statistics were a little surprising. I think that the behavior of the males and females in this book are very different based on their cultures, when comparing them to American culture. So when you say "why didn't the women throw them out of the house and just depend on themselves?" I think it's because in their culture it is not as acceptable as it is here in the United States, although I'm sure that they would be far better off without their spouse. It's actually very sad that the men treat women like this because they are not making money, and then once they are - they are treated differently. It's not like once the husband starts working underneath the wife, the wife treats him bad. And like you said about the women paying off her husband's debts off first.. that is unbelievable, especially after how she was treated. I do not think that all men are like this though, the book does really exaggerate about the bad things, because they are trying to get a point across to the readers. I think that the majority of families are supportive towards their wife making money, but there are some that don't and Nick wants to point out that this does exist, and it does happen to women.
ReplyDeleteI was stoked about learning about micro-financing and the successes it had, I even picked out a person on kiva.org's website I wanted to support and anxiously awaited my husband's arrival from school to discuss it with him. As soon as I told him he immediately denied my idea because he "doesn't trust these online things that just send money to Africa". I can only imagine my heartbreak being one tenth of what many women face in truly combative relationships. I know my husband sees me as an equal and never considers abusing me and he had no issue with sitting down and learning about my "crazy" idea and changing his mind after letting him eat a snack and read the chapter. I truly believe marriage is a contract and that its important for both parties to work towards meeting the others need. It is disheartening to learn that so many marriages in other countries are forced and very unhappy with the woman being a "servant" to the man. To read about how successful women with micro loans can become really shows the importance women have within economies, communities, and just their own families. Giving them the ability to succeed and make money shows their importance to not just their husband, but to their nation. Women and men both play equally important roles in society and this chapter reiterates the fact that everyone deserves the ability to receive an education and career.
ReplyDeleteI think those successful women not keep their husbands, but be responsible to their husbands. It's my experience that my boyfriend doesn't earn money or he doesn't want to work sometimes, then I have to work, so we won't be starving during the time that he's not working. I see him as my family member rather than a person that I'm going out with or a person that I can leave as long as I want. People need to be responsible to the others who are around them. I think that's the reason why the successful women still want their husbands to be around. They show their responsibilities.
ReplyDeleteI think the points you all are making about our American "privilege" are really important. Remember how we talked in class last time about how fortunate we are to have options in our lives as Americans? I think the same applies in this situation. When we are faced with many options, we often forget that others do not have these options. I also found it interesting that you all chose to focus on the abuse in Saima's story instead of the ending, where she becomes empowered to run her household! Being financed to start her own business was certainly one more option Saima had to remedy her situation.
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting that the women kept the men around as well. I am thinking that it is more or less a cultural thing, and that divorce is not really seen as an option. As we all know here in America any hetero sexual couple can get married, and just as easily divorced. In may other countries if women are from a divorce they are seen as no good to other men and are at risk for never having a family again. I think it is terrible that the women ultimately feel trapped and do not have the choice to leave, or the guts to be on there own even if it means being alone.
ReplyDeleteOn top of the fact that divorce is not as accessible and or looked down upon I think that even though many of the women's husbands can be horrible, their wives still love them, and want to forgive them to have the better life that they wanted together.
The difference in cultures and countries can be really hard to wrap your mind around. My family and the women in my family are strong, educated women. If a man were to try and control them, beat them and generally treat them as though they were property they would hit the road. It’s strange to think that women like Samia feel an allegiance or feel that they owe their husband and stay with them after their own personal success; however stories always have more to them than what meets the eye. I think the male vs. women perspective is a little unfair. There are undoubtedly stories from these areas that are completely the opposite of one such as Samia’s. It’s slightly over generalizing the issue.
ReplyDeleteMost of these oppression issues, or the question that was raised about why these battered women keep their husband around after becoming successful are cultural issues. I think women are afraid of what society or "their village" will think of them if they just leave their husband. Society just doesn't judge in these stories we read, but most of these stories end in terrible beatings or exile if women stand up or just abandoned their husbands. Society will have to change their conservative native viewpoints before women can gain liberation.
ReplyDelete